(This is an
edited and partial transcript from a live chat The Writer’s Chatroom had with
Shelley Armitage on Jan 22, 2017.)
Moderator Lisa Haselton: Welcome to The Writer's Chatroom. Our
mission is to present fun and educational chats for readers and writers. My
name is Lisa Haselton and I’ll be your moderator today.
Let me
introduce our guest, Shelley Armitage.
Shelley grew
up in the northwest Texas Panhandle in the small ranching and farming community
of Vega, Texas, in Oldham County.
She still
owns and operates a family farm, 1,200 acres of native grass, wheat and milo
farmland bordering Highway Interstate 40 on the south and the Canadian River
breaks on the north. Shelley shared this landscape from childhood on, riding
with her father and grandfather to check crops and cattle and later jogging and
today walking the farm roads.
Shelley’s
professional life has offered her a connection with landscape through studies
of photography, environmental literature, cultural and place studies. After
living and working in diverse places—Portugal, Poland, Finland, and Hungary,
teaching in the Southwest and Hawai’i, researching in New York, Washington DC,
Oregon, Illinois, Missouri, Connecticut—place has taken on special meanings.
The author of
eight books and fifty articles and essays, Shelley has held Fulbright Chairs in
Warsaw and Budapest, a Distinguished Senior Professorship in Cincinnati, and
the Dorrance Roderick Professorship in El Paso as well as three National Endowment
for the Humanities grants, a National Endowment for the Arts grant, and a
Rockefeller grant.
Shelley
resides part of each year in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
Ladies
and Gentlemen, please welcome Shelley!
Shelley Armitage: Thank you everyone. So great to be
here.
Chatter Tricia: Could you talk about how prominently
you think a sense of place should figure in fiction?
SA: I think it depends on the fiction. But I think place can
be defined in many ways, even Proust's chair in a room. Often I think place is
not a "setting," or a backdrop but something highly psychological,
etc.
Chatter Tricia: Fascinating, Shelley. Thank you.
LH: Shelley, what is the Llano Estacado and why was it
important to you to walk some of its many miles?
SA: The Llano Estacado is a vast tableland (much of it at
4,000 feet) – an elevated plateau – one of the largest in the U.S. My modest
part is in the northwest part of Texas near the New Mexico state line.
I found it
important to walk there in order to really sense the place, its prehistory,
history, and the various stories, including the land's own narrative by
actually feeling the place. I say in the book that I felt I took the land up in
my body and it came out writing.
Also, that
area is much maligned, called by some still the Great American Desert, and
stereotyped as flat and "unworthy of love." I found special beauty
and surprising revelations by spending many summers walking there.
LH: So you hadn't planned to write about
it when you walked it?
SA: No. At first this was a kind of recreation and honestly a
habit of many years spent with my dad on the farmland. I had often jogged there
and then later when I wore out my knees, walking. So out of sheer boredom one
summer, I decided to start at the family farm and follow an intermittent creek
some thirty miles to where it empties into the Canadian River north.
My dad had
known the earliest settler, Ysabel Gurule, in that Canadian Valley north from
the farm and it turns out Ysabel's dugout (he came in l876) was at the end of
that creek, connecting the farm to the river. I thought the two men's lives and
narratives connected through the story I might discover from the land.
Chatter Michael: What are some of the major themes
you've dealt with in your books and articles?
SA: Wow, that's a big one. I would say the theme of the
forgotten, marginalized, disregarded, etc. I've always chosen subjects that I
considered very key, very important but that may not be part of a given canon
or centrist. For example, the story of the llano.
Most people
have never heard of this geographic location much less the stories of Comanche
and Kiowa, Clovis and Folsom man, etc, etc. I've written about cartoonists who
has been forgotten yet who were key to defining the visual components of an
era, for example.
In my recent book,
there is the theme of beauty redefined. Of a personal ecology, as I call it.
Chatter Tricia: Is that where you've planted native
grasses?
SA: Yes, the native grasses have been restored. There was
already some native grass, never plowed, there. It's very satisfying to hope
that habitat restoration might make a difference.
Chatter Tricia: That's wonderful, and it seems that
habitat restoration would make a difference for sure.
SA: It helps restore wildlife corridors, for example, for
pronghorn antelope. But the book, Emerson like, takes the concrete, such as
these ecological features we are discussing, and I hope makes them soar.
Chatter Jim: Interesting about the replanting. Do
you have a notion of the depth of the top soil there? I am trying to get an
idea of the sort of grass there.
SA: Depth of topsoil. Not sure really. But there is a
healthy amount and dryland farming does very well there. It's actually easy to
be ecologically smart there if one is patient. There is buffalo, side oats
grama, little bluestem, etc.
Chatter Jim: I've heard of bluestem. My thanks.
SA: It's what folks call short grass prairie.
LH: Do you remember a moment when you 'knew' you'd write the
memoir? A day or when you noticed something in particular?
SA: Actually, I had been teaching a memoir course, without
having written a memoir! And yes, looking back on notes and photographs I took,
I started thinking about what Mary Austin said one time: "it's the land
that wants to be said." Someone else I had done scholarly work on, a poet,
also said she wanted to be a tongue for the wilderness.
Chatter Tricia: Beautiful.
LH: Ooh, I like that phrase "a tongue for the
wilderness"
Chatter Jim: Me too. Really have a nice way with
words, Shelley. :)
SA: I thought that memoir as a form was particularly suited
for what I thought about the experiences: it may deal with interiority, but
also with the explicit world, thus concrete experience, but also interior
thoughts, even dreams, the spiritual, etc.
LH: Shelley, what did you discover about yourself as you
walked in relationship to the land where you grew up?
SA: Oh, so many things. The walks were also a respite from
the worries I had carrying for a declining mother and later dealing with her
death (while this process was going on) and also the death of my brother. I
essentially lost all my family while on these walks. I turned to the plains as
a kind of family, believe it or not, something that gave me strength and
wisdom. I did a lot of research after each walk and thus studied lifeways and
beliefs of Native peoples, the care of the land by pastores (New Mexico
sheepherders), etc. The stories are what help us along, as Leslie Silko has
said, "we are nothing without the stories." Living these other
stories, while making my own, was profound for me.
In one
passage, I say I want to be adopted by mother earth and father sky, which
sounds very corny out of context, but as an adopted child, it resonated many
ways.
LH: Have you found poetry a way to express some of what you
feel/experience?
SA: Yes, absolutely. And the book we have been discussing
has been reviewed over and over as "lyric." I think my interest in
the poetic voice and imagination, in writing poetry, in cultivating that ear,
is in the book. Also, this is a reason I like memoir: such freedom
stylistically. My poetry also deals with "a habit of landscape," the
idea that spending time in places gives us keys to understanding ourselves and
others.
Chatter Janet: Even your answers to our questions
are lyrical, Shelley.
LH: I can hear your passion for the landscape
and writing in your words
SA: Thank you!!!
LH: What were some of your challenges in
writing the memoir?
SA: Well, for one, I had never written this kind of
nonfiction. My scholarly works I hope are very readable; I have always thought
of myself as a writer (or someone who attempts to be) rather than an
academician. So grace and saying through style have always been important. I
had never written about myself until this memoir. And it's amazing how it went
through so many stages. I wrote and rewrote it, through a few years. I think
each time I got closer to it writing itself, a kind of flow that was natural. A
real story. And I learned I could write in segments. That I didn't have to have
a logical sequence. This was the most freeing discovery--this and the
realization that memoir allows for fictional devices, so as I say I did not
have to make everything logically sequential.
LH: Thank you! Was it challenging to figure out what to
include and what to leave out?
SA: Oh, yes. Great question. At one point (and back to the
question about the poetic) I clipped and posted up on my garage wall the poetic
lines I could not part with. Yet, I didn't know exactly what to do with them. Then,
looking at them on the wall (like Faulkner diagramming As I Lay Dying) I saw they were the subconscious underpinning of
what I wanted to say. So I could build on them. That way, I could cull what
didn't fit, didn't connect as extended metaphor or expanded imagistic theme.
LH: Sounds like quite the process! :)
SA: I found it kind of tricky when you already are a critic,
a literary professor, and come at literature from that perspective. To critique
oneself, yet not gut what is a primal sort of notion, the given line, the lyric
voice, was difficult. I found another self, the one I had always wanted as a
writer, in this book as in the poetry.
Chatter Jim: I was wondering about your overseas
time and how that influenced your writing?
SA: Yes, great question. I think the Fulbrights and other
overseas teaching have been the pinnacle of my life. I was able to get out of
myself, try to fit in, learn from other cultures. I first went to Ethiopia when
I was young and a young teacher. That changed my life forever. I would always
encourage anyone to travel and to witness. I loved it!!
Chatter Janet: A reviewer of your memoir said
"She carefully mines the history, character, and geology of the Llano
Estacado and combines it with a compelling personal narrative to create an
account that flows with lyricism, authenticity, and wisdom." You have
crafted a beautiful story I believe. What period in your life is in the book?
SA: The book, or I should say the experience of the walks,
began in my fifties. That was a very transitional time for me; as I say, my
mother had all sorts of health problems and I found myself the prime caregiver
even though I lived 400 miles away. I think that experience (the combination of
adventure and loss) really helped me grow.
Chatter Tricia: You mentioned your mother's and
brother's deaths. Do you talk about your grieving in the memoir?
SA: Absolutely. I couple those experiences with the hikes,
the walking. I don't know how to explain those chapters, but everything is
interwoven, which becomes the heart of the book. I still grieve frankly when I
reread passages of the book and am buoyed as well. The walks helped me cope and
gave me strength.
LH: Shelley - you mentioned you were teaching a memoir class
before you wrote a memoir -- did your approach to the class change after you
wrote the memoir?
SA: Actually, I had taught the class previously, but then
had a chance to participate in that class later as a guest (I had developed the
course). At that time, I realized I hopefully understood much more about
memoir!!! I think the one thing that most affected me was realizing how
narrative is not sequential. I actually wrote almost flash pieces, sections,
even some which were aided by prompts (or forced by prompts!!). But somehow
there was a thread, a kind of subconscious reality, that, when I looked at the
fragments, they could be worked together.
LH: Thank you for sharing that.
SA: I should give an example. There is the obvious element
of water, of the lack of it, in the llano. The Ogallala Aquifer, one of the
largest in the world, runs underneath, but is rapidly being depleted. So in
terms of water I had a natural trope emerging. My mother actually died from
water on the brain. At one point, thinking about her condition, I say
"water will have its way." This has been set up in earlier chapters
with my observations of the landscape where water has previously sculpted the
geography. And there is also an earlier section about my father building a dam
which didn't hold against the periodic rains. Water will have its way.
LH: Shelley -- what length do you enjoy writing the most? Do
you find a particular word count to feel 'natural'?
SA: You know, recently I have done these blogs, maybe a page
and a half, which are remarkably satisfying! But that scares me: can I write
something longer anymore or am I being lazy. But with short pieces, I think you
have the challenge of saying something interesting in a small space, really not
having the luxury of expanding, yet creating memorable kernels. I usually write
about twenty pages for a chapter. And am comfortable with that length.
LH: What tips would you have for someone
wanting to write a memoir?
SA: Value your own story (stories). Examine your life and
think about the seemingly small and insignificant things about it which are
waiting for you to revisit. With memoir, we have a double memory, that of the
first experience, trying to remember it, and that of recreating that
experience. It's almost like revising oneself, perhaps we become a better self
once written out. And I would say write, write, write then look at that writing
as if it is someone else's. What have you learned from it? What is missing? What
do you want to know? And, back to my two suggestions, what can be found there? What
is remarkable about the seemingly pedestrian elements of our lives?
And I forgot
to say earlier that a major theme in the book is that we ARE the landscape. As
Leslie Silko has said (sorry, but she is so right on in her comments), we are
as much a part of the landscape as the boulders we stand on. In other words,
landscape is not something "out there." But, maybe we could say, in
here.
LH: With your connection to your landscape and obvious
passion for words, are there any writers, or poets, that come to mind for
someone who wants to read beautiful and/or lyrical descriptions?
SA: The poetry of Peggy Church, a New Mexico writer, has
inspired me. She's an older poet, that is, her style is totally lyric so may
not be to the taste of some. I would read The Way to Rainy Mountain by Scott
Momaday as a classic memoir that’s really an extended poem. Just freaking
beautiful. Leslie Silko, a novelist. She is a key to understanding form itself.
Oh gosh, I have tons, but hard to call them all up. Maybe I could send a list
later!!!
I think of
the novelist Cristina Garcia who is a study in integrating very poetic lines
with fictional narrative.
Chatter Tricia: One that comes to my mind is
"Lorna Doone." I know it's 'old', but it has some beautiful
descriptions and places. It's as though the landscape is a major character in
the story. I think that's true in much 18th- and 19th-century English
literature, but perhaps in few books as much as this one.
SA: Yes, so much of British literature of a certain
generation is full of lyrical work. I tend to read so-called multi-cultural writers
and contemporary work nowadays.
LH: Do you write longhand, or on a
computer?
SA: I make notes in longhand, but have written either on a
typewriter or a computer since junior high school, thank goodness. My dad
brought home one of those little pink numbers from his work place and I was
smitten. And believe me, junior high was a few years back!!!
I remember
when John Updike confessed he had to move from longhand in his writing
practices to the computer. I think that must have been tough.
LH: Thank you, Shelley. We're just about at the top of the
hour, I can't believe how fast these 2 hours have gone. So I'll ask you for
final comments... anything else you’d like to add before we close for today?
SA: I want to thank everyone. How wonderful the questions
and what a great experience. I am thrilled to have been here.
Chatter Tricia: Is there a way to contact you on your
website?
SA: Yes, but also you can write me at ssarmitage@aol.com. Please
do. Also, I would like to mention I do a weekly blog at shelleyarmitage.com.
LH: Shelley has been an entertaining and informative guest
with much to share with us. Check out her website after chat:
http://shelleyarmitage.com/. Our Chatroom Team and I want to thank Shelley for
an interesting and entertaining chat. Thank you!
SA: Thanks! Super experience!!!
Labels: chat transcript, lisa haselton, memoir, Memoir writing, Shelley Armitage, The Writer's Chatroom, Walking the Llano